Protect the installation from freezing for a minimum of 28 days. Installation can be made on a damp surface, but new concrete must cure for at least 28 days before adhering the tile. 22 0 R For the conventional two-step process of thin-setting and grouting, use Glass Tile Adhesive Mortar, 254 Platinum (white), or 257 Titanium (white). You should be fine to do indoor jobs in any weather as long as you're working in a climate-controlled space. b. Schluter-KERDI family of waterproofing membranes: Solidly embed into the mortar using the flat side of the trowel or a drywall finishing knife and work the membrane onto the entire surface to ensure full coverage and remove air pockets. The TCNA says modified in their installation handbook and with my experience modified is best for tiles and that's how I do it, but I am looking for a better way of cutting the setup time of modified thinset on top of a vapor barrier type product. What does "Smote their breasts" signify in Luke 23:48? White thinset is used with white or very light-colored stone or tile. Find out exactly what you need for complete coverage. Allow the grout to slake to 10 minutes, then remix. Now the thinset is ready for use. Product Name SpeedSet Fortified Thin-Set Mortar 2. All Schluter mortars are suitable for use in exterior applications. Use quick-setting polymer-enhanced mortar. 18 0 R >> Thinset mortar is your default tile mortar for most indoor and outdoor applications. Its a product that can cause skin irritation. Accelerators do work I use them especially when doing outdoor work in cold weather. 4. Can be used for small repairs. Otherwise, it can reduce the strength of the thinset mortar. Wait at least 4 hours at 70 F (21 C) before grouting. The problem that you have is that there is too much variance in the equation to properly answer this. The last time I used premixed. New Customers (301) 273-1995 Existing Customers (301) 205-5570. The latex fortified thin set mortars provide a longer working time, and adjustability time. Can small batches be mixed instead of mixing full bags of mortar for small areas? It is suitable as underlayment for tiles and stonework, and sets up hard enough for foot traffic in only six hours. Chart for estimating purposes. It's generally advisable to aim for an even layer of about 3/16-inch thick. Yes. For membrane installation, the mortar should be mixed to a fairly fluid consistency, but still be able to hold a After installing membrane, can more powder be added to the mixed mortar to achieve the correct consistency for installing tile? Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Add water, apply and let the mortar cure for 6 hours. Monitor the mortar and reduce the heat if you see signs of cracking. Total Cost. And sometimes the type of tile itself is a determining factor. Remix for one full minute. Hunker may earn compensation through affiliate links in this story. This will have the same effect on the evaporation rate as heat. Difficult to remove. People have been beating the heat around the world for centuries without plugging anything in. Disadvantages of Using Thinset for Backsplash. Cost/ft 2. Speak to a Daycon representative today for pricing and ordering information. /I8 21 0 R For time critical installations, cures rapidly to allow grouting within two hours and traffic within 6 hours. Be sure to add the grout to water slowly. After 12-24 hours you should be okay for light traffic and grouting; but that grout will also need to set 12-24 hours; and preferably should be sealed before you start having major foot traffic/parties; you can probably _just_ eek by getting it grouted, but your thinset wont have full strength and you're potentially risking your . Mastic is very sticky, grabs fast, and is quick setting. Mortar ridges should run in one direction. Get daily tips and tricks for making your best home. A quick-setting, polymer-modified mortar, excellent for commercial use and cold temperature installations, as well as small residential jobs and repairs. I have been told that a fan will also help but have not ever tried this because I was afraid it would cause more problems. Thanks again for the insight! Notched trowels are metering devices. Curing and GroutingMaintain ambient and surface temperatures between 40F to 95F (4 C to 35 C). Any moisture underneath the mortar will leach into the mixture and slow the drying time. All Schluter Systems thin-set mortars, including the ALL-SET and FAST-SET modified varieties can be used to set tile over DITRA Can I use other manufacturers modified thin-set mortars to install tile over Schluter boards and membranes? For Schluter membranes the mortar should be mixed to a fairly fluid consistency, but still able to hold a notch. It comes as powder that you mix with water to activate the bonding material, which is usually Portland cement. 3.a. Consider learning about yourself a bonus. /I4 13 0 R The shelf life of SET and ALL-SET is two years, while the shelf life for FAST-SET is one year. a. ANSI A118.1 is the American National Standard What is the difference between grey and white mortar? endobj Proper installation results in full contact between the fleece webbing and the mortar. Periodically remove and check tile to ensure sufficient coverage is being attained (>80% for dry applications, >95% for exterior or shower applications see ANSI A108.5). With most kinds of thinset, it's generally advisable to wait at least 48 hours after application before walking on or applying pressure to the tile. What is the difference between modified and unmodified thin-set mortar? What were the most popular text editors for MS-DOS in the 1980s? Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. First time mixing up thinset from the bag. Recommended Tile Type Standard Mosaic Ceramic Porcelain Cement Natural Stone Quarry ANSI Specifications A118.4 A118.11 Set Speed Fast Manufacturers often recommend allowing a window of 24 to 48 hours for curing time, and in this case, longer is better. Keeping the temperature higher than the surrounding environment will increase the evaporation rate of the water in the mixture. It is impervious to water, so it does not need any special latex additives, as does some thinset. CustomTech from Custom Building Products -- the brand flooring contractors have trusted since 1964. 4. Getting ready to tile available this first time and surprised how to mix thinset mortar with sheet? Embedded hyperlinks in a thesis or research paper, "Signpost" puzzle from Tatham's collection. When bonding to particularly dry, porous concrete, the slab should be moistened to saturate the concrete and help prevent premature drying or skinning of the bond coat. Step One: Purchase the correct thinset, white or gray, and the proper trowel to apply the mortar. Get daily tips & tricks to help make your best home, Floating Tile Floors: Basics and Availability, How to Remove Grout, Mortar, and Drywall Mud From a Bathtub, Tile Mastic vs. Thinset Mortar: Buying Guide. /MediaBox [0.000 0.000 595.280 841.890] The more product you use, the longer it will take to dry plus, your tile may not adhere well to a heavy layer of mortar. Thinset is also heatproof, so it will not lose its grip in hot environments. Even though it is heavy to carry and more expensive than dry mortar mix, the ease and convenience of premixed thinset mortar make it ideal for do-it-yourselfers. Consult the stone Can Schluter mortars be used with resin-backed tiles? Strategies for doing this involve hastening evaporation of the water. Counting and finding real solutions of an equation. rev2023.4.21.43403. The key is predictability. No. I understand that there is an issue overall but that's part of the job. Working time is how long you have to get the tile in it's final position before you mess up the bond. Move the drill around a bit to ensure all powder is mixed. Continue mixing for 2-3 minutes until the mortar consistency is smooth and lump-free. Pot life for most epoxy tile mortars is about 45 minutes. But it will work with modified thinset? In home improvement projects, rushing almost never pays off. Make sure to observe the open time of the thin-set mortar. Great product, my only issue is the size of the bag which is much smaller then a normal bag. /Producer ( d o m p d f + C P D F) If this happens, its a sign you could be applying too much thinset using the wrong notched trowel. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Because it is cementitious, thinset is dimensionally stableit will not shrink or contract. What is the shelf life of Schluter thin-set mortars? SpeedSet Fortified Thinset Powdered Mortar. I am installing larger format Porcelain Tile (18"x18") over ditra on a plywood subfloor. Standard thinset comes as a bagged powder that is mixed with water. Step Five: When setting tile into the thinset mortar, its important the entire tile contacts the fresh mortar. Can I use Schluter mortars to bond to a gypsum concrete substrate? Schluter FAST-SET is smooth and creamy, as well as easy to handle and spread. Back-buttering is a useful way to help ensure proper coverage, particularly when installing 12" x 12" (305 mm x 305 mm) and larger tiles. Additionally, the moisture will not be drawn out of the thin set mortar as quickly. So that answers that will work. Step Four: Dust and dirt can cause thinset to bond poorly. I think you know this but not what title says. Accelerators speed up the set but not the full cure time as they react with the cement part of the mix. TechPrime A Acrylic Primer. I know that the setup time will depend on the tile size but do you think it will set up in about 12 hours with an 18"x18" tile? << /Type /Page Certain moisture-sensitive stones (e.g., green marble) may require special setting materials. Thanks! 6 0 obj The point at which it is too stiff to realistically work anymore. Rapid Setting Tile Mortar is a rapid-setting, polymer-enriched ("modified") mortar for installing a wide range of tile and stone over a diverse range of substrates in thin-set applications. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Tenting of working area may be necessary to shade the surfaces from direct sunlight and/or rain. %PDF-1.3 1. The thinset mortar should have a consistency of warm cake icing. Allow grout to relax or slake for 15 minutes, then remix. Needs higher temperatures for installation. If allowed to dry and cure, it can be nearly impossible to remove the thinset. So, unfortunately for DIYers new to working with this material, it's tough to find a definitive answer about how long to let thinset mortar cure. 5. endobj If you keep the thinset powder in a hot truck, direct sunlight or a cold garage, let it come to room temperature indoors before mixing it up and using it. How long thinset mortar needs to cure, or dry, varies by manufacturer. For concrete substrates, remove any waxy or oily films and curing compounds (if present) by mechanical scarification (take steps to not to breath in any residual dust). Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. Wash off all thinset from your skin and from any tile surface. Be sure the surface youre applying the thinset to is clean, dust-free and in very good condition. Why in the Sierpiski Triangle is this set being used as the example for the OSC and not a more "natural"? No, after the mortar is initially mixed no water or powder should be added. Pot life is how long it stays good in the bucket. We respect your email privacy. First time mixing up thinset from the bag. Once dry, mix the Thinset as directed for the . Epoxy mortars work well for porcelain and ceramic, as well as for glass, stone, metal, mosaic, and pebbles. Some types of thinset also have polymers or other ingredients added to help make the thinset more workable and stronger. Clean tools with water while mortar is plastic. The amount of water required to achieve the desired consistency will vary slightly based on site Can you add water to the mix after the slake period? Developing our own Why would Schluters modified thin-set be ok to use, but not other manufacturers modified thin-set? Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Our position on the use of other manufacturers thin-set mortars within our systems in general has What is the difference between the ANSI standards? Follow gypsum manufacturers directions for additional substrate preparation. Using an appropriate sized notched trowel, comb additional mortar using the notched side of the trowel. It is sag-resistant and ideal for setting tile on both horizontal and vertical surfaces. Tile laid in this fashion will crack. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. Direct sunlight or high temperatures may cause flash setting or skinning of the mortar. The substrate must be clean, even, and load bearing. Send us an email: , Thin-Set Mortar One-Year Limited Warranty, Lifetime Thin-Set System Extended Limited Warranty, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp, Engineered for use both under and over all DITRA and KERDI products, Ready to grout in 4 hours for fast-track projects, Suitable for use with ceramic, porcelain, and stone tile, including large and heavy tile, Meets ANSI A118.4TF, ANSI A118.11, & ANSI A118.15TF, Lifetime warranty when used with applicable Schluter. box of un-sanded grout. Schluter FAST-SET is a specialized, fast-setting modified thin-set mortar for use as a bond coat within tile assemblies that is optimized for use with Schluter membranes and boards. Wipe surfaces with a damp sponge to remove dust and dirt just before applying the thinset. Large format tiles is a big trend here and a constant issue. Spread the mortar on a dry substrate. I'm having a tough time estimating how much water to start with for the amount of dry mix and end up mixing too much thinset. 2. Excellent for commercial use and cold temperature installations, as well as small residential jobs and repairs. The last time I used premixed. Step Three: Only mix as much thinset mortar as you can cover with tile in about 15-20 minutes for the best results. Why do some of the Schluter mortars have more than one standard on the packaging? Thin-set mortar is less likely to crack if it dries slowly, but if you need it to dry more quickly to avoid damage to it, you can speed up the process. No. In addition to the nature of your job and the type of thinset you use, temperature plays a major role in determining how long it takes for thinset mortar to fully cure. Which thin-set can be used to install large format and/or heavy tile? Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Copyright CUSTOM Building Products 2023 Extreme temperatures can slow down the process, so it's important to take the current weather into account when planning your tiling timeline. You can still use a similar cement-based mortar to install your tile and its not that hard to do. CustomTech offers real solutions to the challenges contractors face on the job every day, whether its a common issue like young concrete -- or the challenge of pumping leveler up 60 stories in high-rise construction. << /Type /Catalog Its quick-curing properties allow for grouting in as little as 3 hours and light traffic in 4 hours. How Long Do You Have to Let Mortar Set Before Grouting? We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. /I7 20 0 R But if it cures too slowly, it takes forever to get to the grouting stage. Thinset is a mortar that is made of Portland cement, silica sand, and moisture-retaining agents. Using an appropriate sized notched trowel, comb additional mortar using the notched side of the trowel. If the mortar skins over, remove and re-apply fresh mortar. If you have a large area of mortar in a closed space, place a dehumidifier in the space to remove moisture from the air. Yes. Step Four: Dust and dirt can cause thinset to bond poorly. Schluter FAST-SET is suitable for use with ceramic, porcelain, and stone tile, including large and heavy tile, in conjunction with Schluter-Systems uncoupling and waterproofing membranes (e.g., DITRA, DITRA-HEAT, KERDI, etc. Now, what about the drying times. What Is the Ratio of Water to Mortar for Thinset Tile Installation. Application To substrate: To ensure proper drying, follow manufacturer guidelines, maintain appropriate temperature and humidity levels, properly prepare the substrate, and adhere to . Thinset tile mortar has a smooth, slippery consistency, similar to mud. Temperatures must range between 60 and 90 F for proper installation. The Custom sets up faster than the TEC. ), the Schluter-Shower System, and KERDI-BOARD. Guess what? (800) 394-0019, Richmond Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, 1st time tiler working with colorbody textured porcelain. Accelerators speed up the set but not the full cure time as they react with the cement part of the mix. After pot life expires, the product is considered to be unusable. Engineered to exceed the most stringent requirements, CustomTech products deliver exceptional strength, durability and ease of use. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Application. This cure time will be longer if the temperature of the room is below 60 F. Summary: Be sure you read all instructions, including safety instructions when working with thinset mortar. For gypsum substrates, residual moisture in gypsum screed must be 2.0% or less before installing Schluter uncoupling membranes. Pigmented epoxy mortars do not leak onto ceramic or porcelain tile. 3 0 obj For tile repairs and small jobs Strong polymer-modified mortar For tile repairs and small jobs, also great for commercial use and cold temperatures. Dry-set mortar is comprised mostly of cement, sand, and a water retention agent, and is also called unmodified Why did Schluter Systems change its position on thin-set mortar? - Ed Beal Mar 2, 2017 at 19:55 Thanks! What are the advantages of running a power tool on 240 V vs 120 V? Thinset tile mortar provides a very strong bond and is resistant to moisture and mold growth. /MediaBox [0.000 0.000 595.280 841.890] Also, using hot water makes it set faster than cold water. Any general rule for working time for modified thinset? Upper Marlboro, MD 20774, Washington D.C. /I10 25 0 R Epoxy tile mortar comes in two or three separate components that must be mixed by the user right before use. << /Type /Pages endobj The thickness of your thinset layer will also affect curing time. The working time of the mixture can vary, considering several things. I'm having a tough time estimating how much water to start with for the amount of dry mix and end up mixing too much thinset. Another advantage of thinset is that it allows you to level uneven surfaces to some degree. Make sure to observe the open time of the thin-set mortar. Resin-backed tiles may require special setting materials. Keep in mind that the temperature of the water and the thinset mixture matter too. So that answers that will work. << /Filter /FlateDecode Saltillo tiles are very porous and highly absorptive which can quickly draw moisture out of conventional dry-set (ANSI A118.1) thin set mortars. I think that will be product/chemical dependent and has to do with the ratios you are using. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Schluter recommends mixing full batches with measured amounts of water to learn the correct How precise must the measuring of water used for mixing be? Always use cool water to mix thinset. Consult the DITRA Installation Can I use Schluter mortars in a submerged application (e.g., water feature)? /I2 11 0 R Fast setting, polymer modified mortar ideal for fast track or cold weather jobs. Great for commercial use and cold temperatures. Because thinset is not affected by moisture, it is best for floor tile and any tile in wet areas, including shower floors, walls, and ceilings and tub surrounds. (301) 218-1000, Toll Free The thinset will get in the way of grout youll apply later. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, Thats not just a crumb-strewn counter or a yard scattered with leaves. That information is included on the bag, or should be. /XObject << UOM: EA. Temperatures must range between 60 and 90 F for proper installation. Let it sit for 5-10 minutes. [/PDF /Text /ImageC ] Mechanical strength is strong, so they hold the tile firmly in place and resist compression. With most kinds of thinset, it's generally advisable to wait at least 48 hours after application before walking on or applying pressure to the tile. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Why don't we use the 7805 for car phone chargers? Cons. If you're not able to apply thinset mortar in ideal conditions, it may dry more slowly than the directions say. Its a good idea to use this if youre using white grout between the finished tiles. Product composed of a proprietary blend of Portland cement, inorganic aggregates, copolymers and chemicals. This can be a deficit because it provides only a short window of time to make changes. Are phosphate floor screws suitable for subfloor which will be covered in thinset and cement board? Step Seven: As you install tile, avoid excess thinset from squeezing up in between tiles. Light traffic in 4 hours. For tile repairs and small jobs. Interpreting non-statistically significant results: Do we have "no evidence" or "insufficient evidence" to reject the null? c. Tile: Solidly embed the tile in the mortar, pushing the tile in a back and forth motion to collapse the mortar ridges. Following this procedure will produce the best workability and help ensure maximum open time and pot life. The mixture shrinks and hardens as it dries. Back-buttering is a useful way to help ensure proper coverage, particularly when installing 12" x 12" (305 mm x 305 mm) and larger tiles. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Use less water when you mix the mortar. 4. Now, what about the drying times. For more sizes, use the material calculator at CustomBuildingProducts.com or contact CUSTOM Technical Services at 800-282-8786. Does all wood glue need to be removed from a cement floor to use thinset to seat ceramic tile? ] endobj Its quick-curing properties allow for grouting in as little as 3 hours and light traffic in 4 hours.